This is in response to:
My Trinity Question
I am not here addressing what is stated there in detail, but mostly giving links to where I have discussed the points before. Please note that I am not just addressing what is present in the original post, but rather what is presented in the comments.
Preliminary:
Jesus is Not Yahweh
The God (Supreme Being – The Might) of Jesus (Scriptures)
Who is Jesus?
John 1:1
John 1:1 proves that Jesus was deity (mighty) with (or towards) the only true Might of the universe (John 1:1,3,5), the source of all might; it does not prove that Jesus is in the only might of the universe.
If Jesus is the Might whom he is with, then Jesus is the Father, for Jesus identified whom he was with in John 17:1,3,5. Jesus was with the only true God, thus, the default is that Jesus is not the only true God whom he was with. Even most trinitarians say that the first theos in John 1:1 is not being used in the same manner as the second theos, for they use their imagination and form the assumption that the first theos is not speaking of three persons, but rather of one of the alleged persons of their triune God, while the second theos does not speak of the three persons, but the alleged second person of their triune God. Nevertheless, it is obvious that the second theos is not used in the same manner as the first theos. In the text John emphasizes the difference between his usage of theos by repeating that the Logos was with God, thus indicating that the Logos was NOT "God" whom he was with, and that "god" applied to the Logos means something different than expressing "the only true God" (John 17:5).
There is Only One True God
The Logos of God
What Beginning?
John 1:1 and Trinitarian Assumptions
The Logos was Theos
John 1:1 - In the Beginning
Hebraic Usage of the Titles for “God”
If Jesus is the Might whom he is with, then Jesus is the Father, for Jesus identified whom he was with in John 17:1,3,5. Jesus was with the only true God, thus, the default is that Jesus is not the only true God whom he was with. Even most trinitarian say that the first theos is not being used in the same manner as the second theos, for they use their imagination and form the assumption that the first theos is not speaking of three persons, but rather of one of the alleged persons of their triune God, while the second theos does not speak of the three persons, but the alleged second persons of their triune God. Yes, it is obvious that the second theos is not used in the same manner as the first theos. In the text John emphasizes the difference between his usage of theos by repeating that the Logos was with God.
http://jesus.rlbible.com/>=tag=john-11
Romans 9:5
See:
Who is Over All
2 Corinthians 3:17
Yahweh, the Spirit
1 Timothy 6:15,16
The Only Ruler Who Possesses Immortality
ELOHIM
Elohim – Does This Word Indicate a Plurality of Persons in a Godhead?
Genesis 1:26 – Let Us and Elohim
Hebrews 1:8 – Why is Jesus called “Elohim” and “Theos”? Psalm 45:6,7
Genesis 1:1 – Elohim
Emmanuel
Matthew 1:23 – Immanuel, God with us
Son of God
In the expression, Son of God, the word "God" signifies one person, not a triune God, which agrees with the usage of the singular word "God" all through the Bible. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is always presented as one person, and not once as more than one person. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is always presented as a distinct individual from His son.
The Unipersonal God Spoke Through His Son
Son of God and Son of Man
John 5:18
The Jewish Leaders' "Cause" to Kill Jesus
I Am
“I am”
Creator
The "all" that the unipersonal God (Colossians 1:2,13-15) created by means of Jesus does not include the first born creature, since it is evident (1 Corinthians 15:27) that God is not created at all, and that Jesus was created before that "all" which was created through, by means of, him. -- Colossians 1:15,17.
http://jesus.rlbible.com/?tag=colossians-116
The all that came into being through Jesus in John 1:3 refers to the world of mankind, as described in John 1:10, and which Jesus refers to in John 17:5. Paul refers to this world in Romans 5:12, showing how it had become corrupted through sin. (see 2 Peter 1:4) Paul again refers to this world in Romans 8:19-22 and refers to this as "all creation" in verse 22. This "all creation", however, does not include the angels, for the angels who see the face of God (Matthew 18:10) have not been subjected to futility. -- Ecclesiastes 1:2,13-15.
http://jesus.rlbible.com/?tag=john-13
Yes, there is only one being in the universe so has not been created. The Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, identifies that one being as one person, and never as more than one person. Nevertheless, while it may be that the thought of self-existence is included in Ehyeh (I am, I will be) and Yahweh (He is, He will be), I believe that the Holy Name declares that the Creator is and will be Who He is, that is, He is and will who He is and thus does not deny Himself (2 Timothy 2:13); His word is trustworthy. -- Isaiah 55:11; Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18.
Focus on the Holy Name
Originally posted 11/13/2010; Updated 11/15/2013
Showing posts with label Replies to Trinitarians. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Replies to Trinitarians. Show all posts
Friday, November 15, 2013
Sunday, October 19, 2008
Is the Trinity Doctrine a Basic Biblical Doctrine? Part 1
Is the Trinity Doctrine a Basic Biblical Doctrine?
In reality, we do not find the doctrine of the trinity in the Bible at all, much less find it there as a basic doctrine of the Bible. The idea has to be added to, and read into, each and every scripture that is presented to allegedly claim that the Bible teaches such a doctrine. Jerry Casper has presented a page in which he endeavors to show scriptures both from the Old Testament and the New Testament that are alleged to indicate, or give credence to, the trinitarian dogma.
I will, Yahweh willing, present the scriptures he uses, and sometimes a point that he might raise. In some cases I may give a brief comment. In other cases, I may present links that give a discussion of the scripture. In some cases I may do both.
Matthew 28:18,19 - Verse 18 definitely proves that Jesus is not the Supreme Being, since the Supreme Being, being the source of all power, does not need to have such power given to him.
Matthew 28:19
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/mat-2819/
Matthew 28:19
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=225.0
The "Name" in Matthew 28:19
http://godandson.reslight.net/matt-28-19.html
Matthew 3:16,17
Direct Scriptures where all three are mentioned together
Of course, the fact that the God of Jesus, and the holy spirit of God, are mentioned in the same verses with the God of Jesus, does not mean that all three are persons of the only true God.
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
1 Peter 1:2
Matthew 28:19
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/mat-2819/
Matthew 28:19
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=225.0
The "Name" in Matthew 28:19
http://godandson.reslight.net/matt-28-19.html
One Divine Being:
This, of course, would limit the meaning of the word "divine" to the Supreme Being. The Bible does not do this. The word "divine" comes from forms of the Hebrew word usually transliterated as "EL." These forms are translated in the Greek New Testament as forms of the Greek word usually transliterated as "THEOS." EL, in its basic meaning, denotes, power, strength, might. There is only one "MIGHT" in the universe, and that one MIGHT is the God and Father of Jesus, since He is the source of all might in the universe. There are others, however, to whom the Bible legitimately applies the words for divinity, such as the angels. (Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7) The saints are called to partake of the "divine nature." Thus, others who receive special mightiness from the only true MIGHT, can also be referred to as divine. This includes the Son of God who was sent by the only true God. -- John 17:1,3.
If one wants to limit the meaning of the word "divine" to the Supreme Being, then that One would be the God and Father of Jesus.
See:
The Divinity of Jesus
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/10/17/divinity/
Was Jesus Divine as a Human?
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=179.0
The Divine Nature in 2 Peter 1:4
http://godandson.reslight.net/divine-nature.html
The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for "God"
http://godandson.reslight.net/hebraictitles.html
Deuteronomy 6:4
James 2:19 - God is One
http://notrinity.blogspot.com/2008/10/james2-19.html
John 10:30
http://clearblogs.com/jesusandhisgod/2206/John+10%3A30.html
John 10:30 and the Oneness of Yahweh and Jesus
http://reslight.net/john10-30.html
Isaiah 45:5,6
Isaiah 46:9
Old Testament Scriptures Alleged as Indications of the Trinity:
Plurality of the Godhead (elohim):
The plurality of ELOHIM signifies more than one God, not persons who make up one God.
See:
Elohim - Does This Word Indicate a Plurality of Persons in a Godhead?
http://godandson.reslight.net/e-p.html
Genesis 1:1-3 as Related to the Trinity Doctrine
http://godandson.reslight.net/gen-1-1.html
Psalm 45:6,7 - Why Is Jesus Called ELOHIM?
http://godandson.reslight.net/heb-1-8.html
Hosea 1:7
http://notrinity.blogspot.com/2008/10/hosea-17.html
Yahweh Alleged to Apply to Two Different Personalities:
Genesis 19:24
Zechariah 8:9
Adonai -- Another Word for "God"?
Adonai is not another word for "God." Adonai is a form of the word "Adon," meaning Lord. It is a plural form directly taken from the possessive form adoni (my Lord). Sometime after Jesus died, the Masoretes added a vowel point to Adoni in all places that thought* the word was being applied to Yahweh, thus forming the word plural form Adonai, literally meaning "my Lords." Like many other words in ancient Hebrew, a plural form used in singular settings denotes an intensive usage of the word, similar to the English superior and superlative modes. Such usage of a plural in a singular setting has been called the "plural intensive" usage of a word. As such, the word Adonai, when used of Yahweh, means something like "Supreme Lord."
Plural Pronouns
Genesis 1:26
Unity of the Godhead
Deuteronomy 6:4 - Echad
Genesis 1:5 - It is claimed that the evening and morning illustrate a compound one: one day. This may be, but the evening is not "day," nor is the morning the "day." Thus, applying this to the trinity would mean that God is a compound one, consisting of "parts." This cannot be applied to the trinitarian concept of the trinity, since the trinitarian dogma would not claim that the Father is 1/3 of God, and that the Son is 1/3 of God, and that the holy spirit is 1/3 of God. Such an application would mean that God consists of three parts, none of which separately would be "God."
Genesis 2:24 - It is claimed that echad here illustrates the compound usage of one, which is claimed to apply to the trinity. In actuality, for this apply to the trinitarian concept, then the man would have to equal to the whole of the "one flesh" (the marriage union), and also the woman would have equal to the whole of the "one flesh." "Flesh" in this verse does not mean the substance, since both the man and woman are already "flesh" substance before the union takes place, thus, "one flesh" is used to represent the two parts forming the marriage union. Applying this to the trinitarian concept would mean that God consists of three parts, none of which are "God" separately.
Ezra 2:64 -"The whole assembly together was forty-two thousand three hundred sixty." It is claimed that the usage of echad here supports the trinitarian concept, since the compound usages here includes many persons. Again, for this to support the trinitarian concept, each and every one of the forty-two thousand three hundered sixty persons would each, individually, have to be the "assembly." Each one separately, however, are not the "assembly," but rather are simply components, parts, of the assembly.
Ezekiel 37:17 - It is claimed that the two sticks that become one are an example of the trinity. Again, we have two component parts and go to make up a new "one." Each component part is not the "new" one itself. Applying this to the trinity would mean that God is made up of component parts that are each not "God", but when put together would form into "God."
The Hebrew word "yachid" corresponds to the English word "only."
Angel of Yahweh:
It is claimed that the angel of Yahweh is a person of Yahweh Himself. Actually, the very form "Angel (Messenger) of Yahweh" indicates that the messenger sent by Yahweh is not Yahweh. However, the messenger delivered to words of Yahweh and performed the works of Yahweh, and was thus addressed as Yahweh. A similar example is that of an interpreter in a court room. The interpreter presents the words that is interpreting as though they were his own. The interpreter is then addressed as though he were another for whom he is interpreting.
In reality, we do not find the doctrine of the trinity in the Bible at all, much less find it there as a basic doctrine of the Bible. The idea has to be added to, and read into, each and every scripture that is presented to allegedly claim that the Bible teaches such a doctrine. Jerry Casper has presented a page in which he endeavors to show scriptures both from the Old Testament and the New Testament that are alleged to indicate, or give credence to, the trinitarian dogma.
I will, Yahweh willing, present the scriptures he uses, and sometimes a point that he might raise. In some cases I may give a brief comment. In other cases, I may present links that give a discussion of the scripture. In some cases I may do both.
Matthew 28:18,19 - Verse 18 definitely proves that Jesus is not the Supreme Being, since the Supreme Being, being the source of all power, does not need to have such power given to him.
Matthew 28:19
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/mat-2819/
Matthew 28:19
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=225.0
The "Name" in Matthew 28:19
http://godandson.reslight.net/matt-28-19.html
Matthew 3:16,17
Direct Scriptures where all three are mentioned together
Of course, the fact that the God of Jesus, and the holy spirit of God, are mentioned in the same verses with the God of Jesus, does not mean that all three are persons of the only true God.
1 Corinthians 12:4-6
1 Peter 1:2
Matthew 28:19
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/mat-2819/
Matthew 28:19
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=225.0
The "Name" in Matthew 28:19
http://godandson.reslight.net/matt-28-19.html
One Divine Being:
This, of course, would limit the meaning of the word "divine" to the Supreme Being. The Bible does not do this. The word "divine" comes from forms of the Hebrew word usually transliterated as "EL." These forms are translated in the Greek New Testament as forms of the Greek word usually transliterated as "THEOS." EL, in its basic meaning, denotes, power, strength, might. There is only one "MIGHT" in the universe, and that one MIGHT is the God and Father of Jesus, since He is the source of all might in the universe. There are others, however, to whom the Bible legitimately applies the words for divinity, such as the angels. (Psalm 8:5; Hebrews 2:7) The saints are called to partake of the "divine nature." Thus, others who receive special mightiness from the only true MIGHT, can also be referred to as divine. This includes the Son of God who was sent by the only true God. -- John 17:1,3.
If one wants to limit the meaning of the word "divine" to the Supreme Being, then that One would be the God and Father of Jesus.
See:
The Divinity of Jesus
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/10/17/divinity/
Was Jesus Divine as a Human?
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=179.0
The Divine Nature in 2 Peter 1:4
http://godandson.reslight.net/divine-nature.html
The Hebraic Usage of the Titles for "God"
http://godandson.reslight.net/hebraictitles.html
Deuteronomy 6:4
James 2:19 - God is One
http://notrinity.blogspot.com/2008/10/james2-19.html
John 10:30
http://clearblogs.com/jesusandhisgod/2206/John+10%3A30.html
John 10:30 and the Oneness of Yahweh and Jesus
http://reslight.net/john10-30.html
Isaiah 45:5,6
Isaiah 46:9
Old Testament Scriptures Alleged as Indications of the Trinity:
Plurality of the Godhead (elohim):
The plurality of ELOHIM signifies more than one God, not persons who make up one God.
See:
Elohim - Does This Word Indicate a Plurality of Persons in a Godhead?
http://godandson.reslight.net/e-p.html
Genesis 1:1-3 as Related to the Trinity Doctrine
http://godandson.reslight.net/gen-1-1.html
Psalm 45:6,7 - Why Is Jesus Called ELOHIM?
http://godandson.reslight.net/heb-1-8.html
Hosea 1:7
http://notrinity.blogspot.com/2008/10/hosea-17.html
Yahweh Alleged to Apply to Two Different Personalities:
Genesis 19:24
Zechariah 8:9
Adonai -- Another Word for "God"?
Adonai is not another word for "God." Adonai is a form of the word "Adon," meaning Lord. It is a plural form directly taken from the possessive form adoni (my Lord). Sometime after Jesus died, the Masoretes added a vowel point to Adoni in all places that thought* the word was being applied to Yahweh, thus forming the word plural form Adonai, literally meaning "my Lords." Like many other words in ancient Hebrew, a plural form used in singular settings denotes an intensive usage of the word, similar to the English superior and superlative modes. Such usage of a plural in a singular setting has been called the "plural intensive" usage of a word. As such, the word Adonai, when used of Yahweh, means something like "Supreme Lord."
Plural Pronouns
Genesis 1:26
Unity of the Godhead
Deuteronomy 6:4 - Echad
Genesis 1:5 - It is claimed that the evening and morning illustrate a compound one: one day. This may be, but the evening is not "day," nor is the morning the "day." Thus, applying this to the trinity would mean that God is a compound one, consisting of "parts." This cannot be applied to the trinitarian concept of the trinity, since the trinitarian dogma would not claim that the Father is 1/3 of God, and that the Son is 1/3 of God, and that the holy spirit is 1/3 of God. Such an application would mean that God consists of three parts, none of which separately would be "God."
Genesis 2:24 - It is claimed that echad here illustrates the compound usage of one, which is claimed to apply to the trinity. In actuality, for this apply to the trinitarian concept, then the man would have to equal to the whole of the "one flesh" (the marriage union), and also the woman would have equal to the whole of the "one flesh." "Flesh" in this verse does not mean the substance, since both the man and woman are already "flesh" substance before the union takes place, thus, "one flesh" is used to represent the two parts forming the marriage union. Applying this to the trinitarian concept would mean that God consists of three parts, none of which are "God" separately.
Ezra 2:64 -"The whole assembly together was forty-two thousand three hundred sixty." It is claimed that the usage of echad here supports the trinitarian concept, since the compound usages here includes many persons. Again, for this to support the trinitarian concept, each and every one of the forty-two thousand three hundered sixty persons would each, individually, have to be the "assembly." Each one separately, however, are not the "assembly," but rather are simply components, parts, of the assembly.
Ezekiel 37:17 - It is claimed that the two sticks that become one are an example of the trinity. Again, we have two component parts and go to make up a new "one." Each component part is not the "new" one itself. Applying this to the trinity would mean that God is made up of component parts that are each not "God", but when put together would form into "God."
The Hebrew word "yachid" corresponds to the English word "only."
Angel of Yahweh:
It is claimed that the angel of Yahweh is a person of Yahweh Himself. Actually, the very form "Angel (Messenger) of Yahweh" indicates that the messenger sent by Yahweh is not Yahweh. However, the messenger delivered to words of Yahweh and performed the works of Yahweh, and was thus addressed as Yahweh. A similar example is that of an interpreter in a court room. The interpreter presents the words that is interpreting as though they were his own. The interpreter is then addressed as though he were another for whom he is interpreting.
Monday, October 13, 2008
Yahweh is One
This page is in response to the following blog page:
http://theophilus-loverofgodsword.blogspot.com/
We will, Yahweh willing, be listing the scriptures from that page on this page, and providing links where one may find more information concerning those scriptures.
Proverbs 1:7
Deuteronomy 6:4
Regarding the Hebrew word ECHAD
For a study on the word ECHAD, see:
http://godandson.reslight.net/echad-one.html
Genesis 2:24
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=122.0
Numbers 13:23
Numbers 34:18
Ezra 3:9
Ezra 6:20
Old Testament Scriptures that are Alleged to "Reveal" the Assumed "Triune Godhead."
Genesis 3:22
http://godandson.reslight.net/gen-3-22.html
Genesis 1:26
http://godandson.reslight.net/gen-1-26.html
Genesis 19:24
http://godandson.reslight.net/gen-19-24.html
Zechariah 2:10, 11
http://godandson.reslight.net/zec2-10.html
Scriptures in the New Testament Alleged to refer to all Three Persons of Triune Godhead As Being Addressed as Yahweh of the Old Testament
Hebrews 1:1, 2 -- Definitely shows that Jesus is not Yahweh who speaks through Jesus, just as he spoke through Moses and the rest of the prophets. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-22.
http://godandson.reslight.net/heb-1-1-10.html
Psalm 2:7
http://godandson.reslight.net/ps-2-7.html
Hebrews 1:5a & c -- 2 Samuel 7:14
Hebrews 1:6 -- Deuteronomy 32:43 [Septuagint]
Hebrews 1:8, 9 - Psalm 45:6, 7
http://godandson.reslight.net/heb-1-8.html
Hebrews 1:10-12 - Psalm 102:25-27
http://godandson.reslight.net/heb-1-10.html
Job 38:1, 4
Isaiah 45:20-23 - Philippians 2:9-11 - Romans 14:10, 11
Exodus 3:13, 14 - John 8:56-58
http://godandson.reslight.net/i-am.html
http://reslight.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/i-am-in-john-858/
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=304.0
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=178.0
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/john8-58/
Jeremiah 31:33, 34 - Hebrews 10:15-17
Daniel 7:9-14
Acts 7:54-56
http://theophilus-loverofgodsword.blogspot.com/
We will, Yahweh willing, be listing the scriptures from that page on this page, and providing links where one may find more information concerning those scriptures.
Proverbs 1:7
Deuteronomy 6:4
Regarding the Hebrew word ECHAD
For a study on the word ECHAD, see:
http://godandson.reslight.net/echad-one.html
Genesis 2:24
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=122.0
Numbers 13:23
Numbers 34:18
Ezra 3:9
Ezra 6:20
Old Testament Scriptures that are Alleged to "Reveal" the Assumed "Triune Godhead."
Genesis 3:22
http://godandson.reslight.net/gen-3-22.html
Genesis 1:26
http://godandson.reslight.net/gen-1-26.html
Genesis 19:24
http://godandson.reslight.net/gen-19-24.html
Zechariah 2:10, 11
http://godandson.reslight.net/zec2-10.html
Scriptures in the New Testament Alleged to refer to all Three Persons of Triune Godhead As Being Addressed as Yahweh of the Old Testament
Hebrews 1:1, 2 -- Definitely shows that Jesus is not Yahweh who speaks through Jesus, just as he spoke through Moses and the rest of the prophets. -- Deuteronomy 18:15-22.
http://godandson.reslight.net/heb-1-1-10.html
Psalm 2:7
http://godandson.reslight.net/ps-2-7.html
Hebrews 1:5a & c -- 2 Samuel 7:14
Hebrews 1:6 -- Deuteronomy 32:43 [Septuagint]
Hebrews 1:8, 9 - Psalm 45:6, 7
http://godandson.reslight.net/heb-1-8.html
Hebrews 1:10-12 - Psalm 102:25-27
http://godandson.reslight.net/heb-1-10.html
Job 38:1, 4
Isaiah 45:20-23 - Philippians 2:9-11 - Romans 14:10, 11
Exodus 3:13, 14 - John 8:56-58
http://godandson.reslight.net/i-am.html
http://reslight.wordpress.com/2007/09/15/i-am-in-john-858/
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=304.0
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=178.0
http://sonofyah.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/john8-58/
Jeremiah 31:33, 34 - Hebrews 10:15-17
Daniel 7:9-14
Acts 7:54-56
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)